EPISODE 007: SMOKING THE PERFECT RACK OF RIBS

DRINK INFORMATION

Every episode we drink a different libation – so what are we drinking this episode?

Tom’s Drink – Hibiki Whiskey

– A moderate Japanese whiskey with a bit of a bite

Ian’s Drink – Yeni Raki

– The national drink of Turkey that tastes like unsweetened black jelly beans

TRANSCRIPT:

Ian Robertson
Hey, Tom, I feel bad about all the jokes that I’ve been making. I didn’t mean to rib you. And that introduce…

Tom Kubiak
I thought the dad jokes were the end of the episode not the beginning.

Ian Robertson
Oh they are woven into the tapestry of this podcast, my friend. That’s actually the theme.

Tom Kubiak
They’re sprinkled. They’re sprinkled on the top, like a good barbecue.

Ian Robertson
Exactly. So that’s actually the theme of our podcast. Today, we’re going to talk about smoking ribs. But just like every other podcast that we do, what you drinking, Tom, first?

Tom Kubiak
So today, I’m drinking actually, a couple of weeks ago, you you mentioned on this Hibiki, the Japanese Scotch so I said, I’m gonna pull that out, because you actually gave me a bottle of this. Of this a while ago, probably I can. I can’t even remember maybe 10 years ago, more than that. So I’m drinking Hibiki 17, 17 year old Japanese whiskey, not a scotch, but a whiskey.

Ian Robertson
So that actually means it’s 27 years old.

Tom Kubiak
That’s true. But it doesn’t once it’s in the bottle, it doesn’t age anymore. So you’re not picking up any changing and I don’t think at least any changes. So interesting. You might, you might differ with that.

Ian Robertson
So interesting. And I want to talk about the Hibiki. It’s called the pronouncement… Yeah. But interestingly, maybe I’ve mentioned this before, but when you distill alcohol, you actually change the alcohol on a molecular level. And the best way I’ve heard it described is like, the molecules get spiky. So when you drink freshly..

Tom Kubiak
You mentioned that before.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, so when you drink freshly distilled alcohol, it has this weird burn. And that’s not just the alcohol content, because you can have high alcohol content. But it you know, it’s, it’s a matter of the molecules being different. So even if you just left it, and it has to be at about 120 proof to get the ideal amount. If you just left it in the bottle, the spikiness goes down over time. Just through the molecules change. It’s kind of like they chill out. They’re like, oh, right, we’re not angry anymore. And they kind of chill out, the barrel helps it along, and the oak and the tannins and carmelized, sugars and the wood and all that stuff. But after 17 years, I don’t think there’s any spiky molecules in it. But if you got a younger, if you got a younger, kind of like bourbon that was like three years old..

Tom Kubiak
And you just let even in glass, in glass..

Ian Robertson
It’s going to do its thing a little bit. It’s not going to be major changes. Most of those molecules calm down in the first year or so. Or even less so. But there you go. Very cool. So is it good? Is it peaty? Is it what is it?

Tom Kubiak
It’s not peaty. No peat at all. It’s got a little it’s a little bit of a harsh taste like a bite or a burn which norm which I don’t normally find in in scotch. Or at least the ones that I drink. It’s got a very nice smell almost a fruity aroma. But I don’t I’m not a huge fan of its of its taste. But it’s whiskey and all.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. It people seem to like it, but I remember you gave me a taste. And I didn’t. I noticed that too was a little bit of a burn that you’re not used to. Yeah, in that type of whiskey. It’s it almost tasted like like a like a had a bourbon taste to it. Like when you have a lot of corn bourbon has a ton of corn in it. And it tastes corn. Yeah. So yeah, there’s another corny joke. Boy, there you go.

Tom Kubiak
What are you drinking?

Ian Robertson
So I’m actually drinking the national beverage of Turkey.

Tom Kubiak
Oh, you told me you were gonna get a bottle.

Ian Robertson
So interesting fact..

Tom Kubiak
It’s Türkiye. Right? I think they changed the name of the country.

Ian Robertson
Well, is it?

Tom Kubiak
Yeah, they just changed the name of the country.

Ian Robertson
I did not realize that, I was just going to give you a factoid.

Tom Kubiak
Okay, tell me.

Ian Robertson
You probably already know this obviously but Turkey is actually the Ottoman Empire. So yeah, a lot of people are like, Oh, the Ottoman Empire disappeared and I’m like no, they just changed their name. They’re kinda and even then they were kind of known as the Turks. And yeah, and it was actually named after one prince who was one of the great conquerors but nobody really talks about the Ottoman Empire they ruled a huge chunk of the world for six hundred years.

Tom Kubiak
Yeah, plus the gateway between Asia and Europe is you know, Constantinople in that area.

Ian Robertson
And even now they’re still relatively a decent size world power and economy. And it’s just kind of like everyone’s like oh Turkey where’s that but you name Russia or you know the US. Something people are always gonna know but Turkey’s out there man.

Tom Kubiak
And this is the begins with an R right.

Ian Robertson
So this is Yeni Raki. Yeni Raki. So. So yeah, I don’t know if I like it yet. They say that it is by far the most popular alcoholic beverage. But you you make what is called Lions milk out of it.

Tom Kubiak
Okay. I’ve heard this but I can’t remember what’s in it.

Ian Robertson
So you just take a dash of the Yeni Raki, pour it in a glass, and there’s no particular amount. It’s just they say quote unquote, to taste. So okay, you do that and it’s clear. And it smells a lot like sambuca.

Tom Kubiak
Okay. Oh, like licorice almost.

Ian Robertson
Because they use anise in it, which I every time I ever say I giggle a little bit, but they use they use anise in it. But they, they you put that in and when you put water in it turns white. So it’s perfect. Oh really, it looks just like vodka and then you put water in it turns white so I looked it up online. And for lack of a better explanation. Basically, it’s an emulsification thing that happens. Okay, wheels and stuff that are in it kind of half mix with the water but not fully. So that’s why they call it Lion’s milk because it’s white.

Tom Kubiak
Interesting.

Ian Robertson
It’s almost like semi opaque depending on the size of your glass.

Tom Kubiak
Okay and how much water do you put in?

Ian Robertson
No particular amount, just to taste. I tried it with a couple of different amounts, like I did it. First of all, I tried it straight. And it it tastes like sambuca if you took out all of the sugar, so it’s a little intense. But it’s smells when you have the lion’s milk made. It smells just like a black jelly bean.

Tom Kubiak
Interesting. Can you could you accomplish the same thing with an ice cube? Like would it cloud it as it gets as it melts?

Ian Robertson
Exactly the same thing.

Tom Kubiak
Neat.

Ian Robertson
So tonight, actually, I got the best amount I did almost 50/50 Just eyeballing it. And that seems to taste the best. Like that’s most enjoyable. Sometimes it’s too watery. Sometimes it’s too strong. About 50/50 was best. But Yeni Raki, I really just wanted to I saw it on a travel show. And I wanted to try it.

Tom Kubiak
And you wanted to try.

Ian Robertson
It’s worth it.

Tom Kubiak
And you found it in a local liquor store, wasn’t something you had to search for.

Ian Robertson
No. So if I want something specific, I’ll usually buy it online. So wine.com.

Tom Kubiak
Yeah. wine.com I use wine.com.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, we’re not we’re not part of the show, or affiliated or anything with that. It’s just as easy. So if I don’t know what I want, I go there. But if I don’t know what I want, and I want to try something new, I walk into a place. And I’ll usually just start awkwardly talking to people, either people that work there or not and say hey, you know anything good. You’d be surprised.

Tom Kubiak
And the, the area where we live Capitol district in New York has some huge liquor stores like warehouses, and there’s two that are pretty, pretty good size, maybe even three, one not quite as big, but they have just an enormous selection of even obscure things which which is cool. But I for gifting wine.com is awesome. Yeah. Because they, you know, they have everything and they get it to you in a day or two or get it to your you know who you’re sending it to.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, it is really convenient. wine.com I am all about the small liquor stores or going someplace though. Because, you know, you’d be surprised if somebody came up to you and said, Hey, I’m not much of a whiskey drinker. Do you have anything to recommend? I’m imagine you would be like, let me show you. I really like this. Yeah.

Tom Kubiak
I’ll help people if they talk to me.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, so I do the same thing. If I’m in a section and I’m like, man, I’ve never had this before. I’ll find a guy standing next to you ever have that? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I drank that you know, with my cousin last year and it was wasn’t bad. Very peaty. Like, oh, cool.

Tom Kubiak
Yeah, I’m gonna have to try that. That’s a good that’s a good idea.

Ian Robertson
So today we’re going to talk about something that is near and dear to your heart. Because it is your specialty. And I was thinking about you today because I didn’t smoke ribs. I actually smoked a pork butt. Which ironically is not part of the pigs butt it’s the butt of the shoulder and it came out good I did bone in. Good, bone in I did a little bone in on the pit barrel. I did it so the I used the rack, didn’t hang it this time because it didn’t have the meshing because it came from a local butcher. We bought the pig and he butchered it so there was no rapping or anything to hold it together. If you don’t have it, it’ll fall apart, but I was thinking about you. I’m like, man, if Tom were here, he’d be definitely doing ribs. Doesn’t matter.

Tom Kubiak
How did it turn out? It doesn’t matter. Yeah, I’ve kind of settled into you know, I really have limited my barbecuing to or my smoking to ribs. Although I do do some boneless chicken breasts skinless boneless chicken breast that turned out pretty good. I think we’re having in fact, we’re going to be doing that tomorrow night we have guests staying with us who don’t eat pork otherwise I would be doing ribs.

Ian Robertson
Who doesn’t eat pork?

Tom Kubiak
I know he said he says he doesn’t eat pork. So I said that knocks the ribs off the off the table.

Ian Robertson
He’s just hasn’t had your ribs, he’s missing out.

Tom Kubiak
Yeah, and We have a friend who is also, you know, a barbecue fanatic and, and I’ve been gloating over my ribs and how they turn out sending him pictures of them. But he’s on a diet right now where he can’t eat any red meat.

Ian Robertson
It’s not red meat.

Tom Kubiak
So we had him over. So it’s counts as red, it to him it counts as red meat, pork counts as red, and he’s only on chicken, turkey that type of style. Fish.

Ian Robertson
That sounds terrible.

Tom Kubiak
So yeah, it is. So I made he was over last week for a little cookout we did. And I had a big tray of ribs there.

Ian Robertson
Good friend, good friend, Tom.

Tom Kubiak
That’s the type of friend I am always thinking of the other person.

Ian Robertson
So I have to say those your ribs look like they come out of a magazine. And you have a very specific process that I’m pretty sure you’ve done a couple 100 racks of ribs or more. So I’d like to know, that’s what we want to talk about tonight. What is the process that works so well for you to get the same good ribs each time? Because that’s my problem is consistency. One time, I’ll be like, these are amazing. And the next time I’m like, Whoa, are these just like garbage with bones in it? I don’t understand. So yeah.

Tom Kubiak
That’s exactly it. And the key word is consistency, at least in you know, from my experience. So and that’s why I had such a problem with the with the pit barrel smoker. Because, you know, and if you if anybody who’s listening has is wondering why I’m saying that we did an episode on, you know, our feelings about the pit barrel smoker. And that’s why I had such a problem with it because I couldn’t get the consistent result that I wanted to and with with my technique for doing ribs is like I have a very specific set of instructions. And it’s over a certain amount of time. And for this amount of time you do this. And for this amount of time you do that and then change the temperature and you want to hold it really, you know, right exactly where you want it. And in order to do that, or at least the way I think is that that pellet smoker does it perfect because you dial in the temperature and and it keeps the the smoker right at that temperature. So it accomplishes what I’m trying to do.

Ian Robertson
You know, you know, so many jokes are about using a pellet smoker are running through my head, but..

Tom Kubiak
I believe it.

Ian Robertson
I’ve already made the low rise jeans joke and the man bun. I don’t know,

Tom Kubiak
I know I know you have. But when you when you eat my ribs, you’ll take all those jokes back.

Ian Robertson
Alright, so let’s get into the nitty gritty here. So I use what’s called the three two one method. Here, here’s I’ll tell you my method, so everybody can hear it. You should never use just timing, in my opinion, you should use temperature. Because the ideal temperature of ribs in my opinion, I’ve had the best results at 195. I take it off at 195. And I let the ribs rest for a minimum of 15 minutes. So the reason you let the ribs rest is all the fat that has come out that has rendered whatever is left. If you cut it open too soon, all the juice runs out. And everyone’s like, Oh, look at all the juice, that juice was the moisture that just left your meat, there was all the fat and the flavor, the 15 to 30 minutes, depending on what you’re smoking of letting it rest allows your meat to soak it back up. And it coagulates just enough to hang on to the meat. So it gives you a nice juicy rib. But three, three hours straight smoke about anywhere from 190 to 250 degrees in my pit barrel, I hang it. I’ll spray it maybe once or twice at most, sometimes not. I’ll take it off and I’ll wrap it and I started wrapping butcher paper which works better. And I find sliced pineapple works the best for me.

Tom Kubiak
That’s common. Okay, all right.

Ian Robertson
A little trick.

Tom Kubiak
Need the acid and the sweet.

Ian Robertson
Acid and the sweet and the pineapple fruit itself. Just laying it on there. You don’t have to pour all this juice in there because it naturally juices itself as it goes. So okay, and then after two hours of that, so three hours smoker, two hours wrapped. And you can either do that on the smoker in the oven, then it’s one hour left, and that gets hung back in the smoker. Okay, and then 30 minutes before I take it out. So halfway through that last hour, I wipe it down with barbecue sauce and get a little bit of carmelized barbecue sauce on the outside. And then by then I’m usually 195 Exactly, which is when connective tissue starts to break down. I don’t like to go over 200 Because then what happens is you get mushy ribs. Yeah, so I like 195 with a little bit of chew on it. Then I wrap it again, let it sit there for 15 to 30 minutes, and then enjoy. That’s my method. But sometimes ribs go a little bit quicker, unfortunately and now I’m rushing to get barbecue sauce on. Sometimes they take a little bit longer and a six and a half hours seven. And I’m like, man I’m getting hungry. You know, family’s like, where’s ribs? So that’s my method.

Tom Kubiak
What do you do? What type of ribs do you buy?

Ian Robertson
So I don’t like the extra meaty ones. They sell those at a lot of stores now, the extra meaty ribs, that tastes like a pork chop to me. Okay, I’ll usually buy the baby back. Sometimes the St. Louis style, the different types of ribs that you get, you’re going to actually have to cook a little bit less or a little bit more, depending on the size of the Yeah. But so 3, 2, 1 though, works on most racks of ribs. How about, how about you though?

Tom Kubiak
So I go with a full set of spare ribs, which is the you know, the baby back ribs plus the additional little section on knuckle that’s on the top I like and I do some, some trimming of them beforehand. So I trim off any little hanging pieces. There’s a flap of meat that’s on the backside of the rib, I trim that off.

Ian Robertson
Oh, you do?

Tom Kubiak
And I also Yep. And I also it seems wasteful, you know, the first couple times you do it, you’re like I shouldn’t be throwing this away. Because it’s a decent, it’s probably, you know, by the time you’re done with with a full set of ribs, two racks, you’re probably thrown away a pound of meat.

Ian Robertson
Really? Why don’t you cook it and eat it?

Tom Kubiak
You could do that. But we’re usually there’s so much ribs. So it’s not something we use, sometimes my wife will take it and use it to make sauce, she likes to put it in sauce. Then I’ll clean up any little hanging bits around to kind of square them up a little bit. And then I pull off the the silver skin the fleshy or the piece of a membrane that’s on the back of the rib.

Ian Robertson
So let me ask you, I want to because your ribs are way better than mine, I want to ask you, I never pull that off. Because when I have pulled that off in the past, sometimes the ribs fall apart when I hang them.

Tom Kubiak
Yeah, so you see I’m not hanging, I’m laying, I’m laying the ribs. So I understand that. That is that would be a problem. If you’re hanging, you know, you have to make sure to hang several ribs in, I would think you know, so you get really a solid rib, you don’t want to hang, you know, and depending on how far they’re hanging to you don’t want the bottom of it to be right on top of the fire either in the pit barrel so. But in my case, I’ve done it both ways. I started off pulling it off, then I switched to scoring it. So some, some people recommend instead of pulling it off, you can just cross hatch it with a really sharp knife. And that accomplishes the same thing. But honestly, I don’t like it, I like to have it gone. So when when I’m eating it and I’ve scored it, it just is off putting to me.

Ian Robertson
It’s like getting a little bit of a wrapper in your food. Yeah, it’s just unpleasant. Yeah.

Tom Kubiak
So I’m, I’ve gotten pretty good at taking it off, you know, the way that I do it is I take a butter knife, and I at the edge of the rib, I just slide the butter knife along one of the rib bones underneath it. And then I use my fingers right on top of the butter knife and kind of just expand it and that allows it to, to pull off in that area. And then if you have a paper towel, you can just grab it with the paper towel and and get it off. So I try to try to do a job of getting that off.

Ian Robertson
You get it off, and you get it off in one piece?

Tom Kubiak
Most of the time, the majority of it will come off maybe like 70% of it. And then I have to clean the rest of it up just by playing with it. Okay. What do you do for seasoning? Do you season before you before you smoke?

Ian Robertson
Yeah I’ll usually do a rub. My whole thing though, is a good rub is important. But by the time you’re done with ribs, the barbecue sauce is more important than the rub. Agreed. So I use I’ll use something called White Lightning which is basically just salt and pepper with some other basic seasonings in there and and that’s really all you want is salt and pepper in a lot of ways but just something basic. You don’t want something that will take over the flavor because otherwise it’ll fight with the barbecue sauce likely later on.

Tom Kubiak
Yeah, yeah. So I’ve again to like you know a lot I’ve done a lot of ribs and I’ve and I’ve tried lots of different barbecue rubs I had settled on for a little while meat churches rubs because they make some pretty good stuff. They have like a honey a honey one that’s that is actually pretty good and we’ve used when we’re doing some other types of of barbecuing but I’m right now just doing salt and pepper. So I salt and pepper it about an hour before I put it on the grill and or on the smoker. And then I do the same thing at the end of it. The end of my process the for the last 30 minutes. I barbecue sauce and let it caramel a bit.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, I think that’s the best. Best way to do it. You want to.

Tom Kubiak
What barbecue, barbecue sauce are you using?

Ian Robertson
So don’t laugh, but I like my barbecue sauce like I like my liquor, lowbrow. I’m using Sweet Baby Ray’s.

Tom Kubiak
Sweet Baby Ray’s, that’s what I use.

Ian Robertson
Something about you know, it has a high sugar content. It goes on easy. And for some reason it just when I’ve used other barbecue sauces like really expensive ones, my family and friends are kind of like, Oh yeah, these are good. When I use Sweet Baby Ray’s they’re like, oh my goodness. Smack that rack of ribs.

Tom Kubiak
Slap your mama ribs.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. I don’t know why but it just, it always is a fan favorite. It works.

Tom Kubiak
Yeah, so my process I started off with a three two one method. And I did that for quite a while actually. And I and I was happy with the results, but I but I, I wanted to tweak it and get it like to be competition, you know, quality. And so. So I spent a lot of time you know, and it’s not my originality, like I found some some really good resources like YouTube is just awesome for that. You can if you find somebody that you, you know you like they, they oftentimes share really good tips with you. And I found this one guy called the mad scientist barbecue. And he’s a smoking fiend. He has all kinds of smokers. And he, he does a, you know, a podcast or I don’t know if he does a podcast, but he does, you know, relatively regular episodes that talk about smoking different things. And so he did a, an episode where he talked about the three two one method, and you know what he thought was good about it and what he thought could be changed. And so I followed his process, which is also five hours. So a little over five hours, I think maybe five and a half. So three two one’s six, this is five and a half. You start off for the first hour and a half at 225. And that basically for the first hour and a half, you just put the ribs in high smoke as much smoke as you can produce at 225. After an hour and a half, then I start spraying it every 20 minutes with a mixture I started off my spray mixture being 50 Vinegar, 50 Apple juice, and now I’ve been doing 1/3 Vinegar, 1/3 Apple juice and 1/3 Bourbon.

Ian Robertson
Oh, wow.

Tom Kubiak
Yeah, and so add an hour and a half still temperatures at 225. Then every 20 minutes I spray it, I wet it down, which helps preserve the moisture content because the evaporation is not coming out of the meat. So you’re keeping the meat really moist. So then for the next hour, you’ve sprayed it three times, then once I hit two and a half hours, then I start spraying it every 15 minutes and I raise the temperature to 275. And then then so for the next hour at 275 I’m spraying every 15 minutes. And every time you come back to spray, the meat has dried that has the know the surface has dried again. And so you’ve got this really incredible bark that develops as a result of that all that all that the tension. Yeah. And then you know I’m during the time I’m monitoring my smoke level I you know my smoker, as I’ve talked about has this little extra smoke box. So I’m constantly adding chunk wood to that to keep the smoke content as high as possible. At the after that after two and a half hours or three after three and a half hours now it’s still at 275 Now I wrap it in butcher paper and drizzle on top of it Some some beef wagyu tallow, so I take about two tablespoons of wagyu tallow put them in a little, little disposable pan inside my smoker and from the beginning. So they it’s been melted and smoked actually. And drizzle that over the top of them, wrap them in the butcher paper, put them back in for another hour at keeping it at 275. And then at the end of that I take them out and I slather them with barbecue sauce and put them back in for the last 30 minutes at 275. And they are they are pretty good.

Ian Robertson
So that sounds really really labor intensive though.

Tom Kubiak
It is. You can’t it’s not set and forget. Okay. You have to you have to sit by the grill. By the smoker.

Ian Robertson
I was just bragging about the fact that the other day I’m like, Oh yeah, I spray my ribs once every hour or so. Like you’re you’re out there every 15 minutes. You’re gonna get wetted with the best bourbon around.

Tom Kubiak
And I don’t check the temperature either like I don’t, I don’t test the temperature. I’ve done it so many times. I’m just relying on the fact that as long as my grill is at my smoker is at the temperature I want, I’m gonna get the result that I want. And it works.

Ian Robertson
So interestingly I’ve talked about this show there’s a show on Netflix that they have a barbecue competition. I watched them Check the temperature constantly. Matter of fact, this show makes me feel better because you had these professional barbecue chefs. And they’re all like, oh, it’s stalling. And they’re freaking out like I do. And they’re there. But they’re always checking the temperature. And they all say the temperature. But obviously, there’s something to be said, if you do the same thing So often you have such a controlled environment that is going to come out the way you want it each time.

Tom Kubiak
And that’s what I’m relying on. Yeah, like if, if I know my smoker temperature is 225. And it’s going to result in my and you know, at a certain time I change it to 275, the only thing that’s gonna could potentially change is maybe the ribs are bigger than than they normally would be. And it might take longer to for them to get to a certain temperature. But I buy typically the same size package or ribs every time.

Ian Robertson
Okay, man, you really did go for consistency.

Tom Kubiak
That’s consistency. Yeah. No variation.

Ian Robertson
But it’s a half an hour shorter, right? You said it’s..

Tom Kubiak
Five and a half hours, it ends up being.

Ian Robertson
Right, the three two one method is six hours.

Tom Kubiak
Six hours. Yeah.

Ian Robertson
I wonder, I wonder how that works out, though. So the three two one method, you’re getting a lot of bark, but you’re getting, you’re getting not as much flavor because you’re not spraying it as much.

Tom Kubiak
Oh, the three two one method. You mean?

Ian Robertson
Yeah. And if you’re hanging, hang the ribs like me, I imagine. Like if you’re spraying with bourbon and apple juice and apple cider, vinegar, third, a third, a third, if you’re laying the ribs down, I imagine that’s an advantage because now the ribs are getting that and it’s staying on it. Whereas if I hang it..

Tom Kubiak
It’s sitting on it.

Ian Robertson
And if I hang and spray that just kind of runs off quicker.

Tom Kubiak
Yeah, no, it’s like, I’m actually I’m spraying it enough to wet the surface. So it’s not just a mist, like I’m actually I’m wetting the surface. So it’s like visibly wet and, and even maybe a little bit of pool, you know, small pooling on the top of it. But by the time I come back, it’s gone.

Ian Robertson
So do you..

Tom Kubiak
I was actually watching an article about, or reading an article about people who use water baths in the smoker, because they’re trying to increase the, you know, the moisture content of the smoker, but I don’t, I don’t feel the need to do that.

Ian Robertson
So I’ve actually heard a couple of guys talk about that. I’ve watched professionals use it. But others have said that you’re creating steam. And if you’re doing it right, you don’t need it. You don’t want water steam. You just steaming your meat. It’s not it’s not what you want. Spraying it with a mixture and adding flavor. That’s what you want. Yeah. Have you ever injected your ribs?

Tom Kubiak
No, I’ve never done an injection. Have you ever tried that?

Ian Robertson
No, but I want to, I watched them do that on a recent video that I was watching. Did they inject it with some kind of flavoring or with just? Yeah, white wine, and a whole bunch of flavorings and stuff like that.

Tom Kubiak
Iinteresting.

Ian Robertson
And they just shove it in. And they pump it until it like bloats it’s..

Tom Kubiak
Oh, wow.

Ian Robertson
It’s really weird to watch and they said, You go until it squirts out back at you. And they’re just they’re just pumping this this pork full of all sorts of juices. Okay, so that might be the next thing that I want to try is inject it.

Tom Kubiak
Might be worth trying and see what happens.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, I imagine the ribs. You probably can’t inject them too much before they start to.

Tom Kubiak
No, because they’re it’s not like there’s a ton of meat, you know, to it’s not the same as like a brisket where you’re you’re pushing into three inches of meat. You know, you’re talking about, you know, an inch at the most. Yeah.

Ian Robertson
Unless you get the extra meaty ribs. Have you ever tried those? Yeah.

Tom Kubiak
No. And I haven’t tried doing beef ribs either. That’s another thing that I that I would like to try sometime because I do like beef. And beef ribs are bigger. You know, they look like dinosaur ribs almost in some cases. So I’m thinking about trying that. But I just, I’m so happy with the results of my normal ribs that I’m not willing to try anything else.

Ian Robertson
So I will say the beef ribs. When I first started smoking stuff I got we bought a cow well he was dead. Obviously. He’s in our freezer. But it came with some beef ribs that I had never seen. Like, like you said it looked like dinosaur bones. Yeah, like what in the world. So I’d never done before. So I thought I’d cook them like pork ribs, and they did not cook like ribs. And then I’m like, Okay.

Tom Kubiak
How’d they turn out?

Ian Robertson
They weren’t that great. Because I didn’t cook them for long enough. So they needed longer. And then I’m like, oh, maybe they need to be cooked like steak. And just get them to what like 140 and that didn’t work out either. They need a long slow cook, and it’s usually a thicker piece of meat. It’s almost like it’s almost like cooking a small brisket.

Tom Kubiak
Okay, all right.

Ian Robertson
But I’ll tell you what. My wife did some in the crock pot.

Tom Kubiak
So oh, that’s a good idea.

Ian Robertson
So and that’s when I realized how good they were. So she just threw in the crock pot. Let’s see what they do. So it just cooked there for seven hours. Some of the best meat that I have had in a long time came out of a crock pot. And I’m just like, you shame me, woman. What is going on?

Tom Kubiak
My wife does that we have an Instapot. And yeah, the stuff that like you can literally take a, we should do an episode on the Instapot, you can take like a frozen pork roast and put it in the instapot or frozen chicken. And in a half an hour. It’s done. Like it’s amazing what comes out of it. Yeah, but Well, I want to ask you a question about ribs. How do you cut them?

Ian Robertson
Erratically and like a caveman, because you think ribs would be straight. And there’s not there’s like cross sections and interconnecting sections. So basically, I just learned to go caveman style on it and save the best ones for company.

Tom Kubiak
Okay, so I found a couple of tricks. You know, with the number of ribs that I’ve done like we in the beginning, I was chewing them up like that, you know, especially if you if you get them to where they’re really tender, and they’re coming off the bone pretty easily. Like, you don’t want ribs that fall off the bone. You want them to stick to the bone a little bit. But when you’re manhandling them with a knife, it’s easy to mess them up. So we I tried a bunch of different knives, I went from a really sharp big like butcher’s knife to like paring knives, to steak knives, I tried everything. And basically, I was just I was just ripping it up. What I found works the best is a really sharp bread knife. And that allows you to be able to it’s long and thin, and you can cut perfect pieces. So that’s worked really good for me.

Ian Robertson
So it’s ironic, you say that, in my research, it led me to a bread knife too and it works a lot like a saw. So basically, you’re just sawing those ribs. And it’s perfect. Because the way the grain of the ribs is, is it’s going to go along the same line of where you’re going to cut with the bone. So you cut right through the bark. You go right through those extra sections of bone. Yeah, it goes right down. My problem is the lower ribs, the smaller ones, those are easy, you go a lop, lop, lop, lop. And then you get great ribs. When you get up towards the top where you cut out that big chunk of meat. There, that’s where it gets wonky, it gets really big.

Tom Kubiak
Because the because you get the little turn, yeah, you have to you have to, you have to be careful of that. Yeah. And that’s why people don’t like the full spareribs they would rather have the baby back ribs because they’re you know, they’re just that that rib piece and you can cut them a little bit easier. But personally, I like the extra, the extra piece at the top.

Ian Robertson
I do too. If you’re gonna smoke that long, you want some substance too, Yeah, and the top piece, the entire rib is just better. You know.

Tom Kubiak
It’s good. Yeah, it’s so good. And the other thing that we found, too, that helps is to let them sit for a little while after you take them off smoker. So we will I’ll usually bring them inside and let them sit maybe about 10 minutes, 15 minutes before we we start cutting them up. And I think during that time, they, they, they condition a little bit to where they’re, they’re easier to cut, rather than you know, when you pull them off, and they’re hot and you’re cutting through.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, so the resting period is what I was talking about before too. So ribs, I imagine don’t take as long as other things to rest, but do you find that they’re juicier when you wait a little bit? Or is it just easier to cut because they’re not as hot?

Tom Kubiak
They might be a little bit juicy, it might pull some of the moisture back in because you know the the and that’s the concept that that I’m accomplishing with the with the wagyu tallow the moisture is it’s not water it’s oil. So you know when when you say all these juice, these are really juicy, it’s not that you’re that you’re filled with water, it’s that it’s that feeling that comes from from having oil inside, you know the the oil that’s connected to the the meat the rendered fat. So when I add the tallow that’s adding that extra little bit of oil to it so that they turn out super juicy. Like they’re just, they’re really moist. And I do think waiting a little bit helps that because you’re you’re not you know, it allows it to to, to condense a little bit.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, also too, meat contracts, like the muscle actually goes like, like that in the contract. Yeah. And then as what as it’s heated up and cooked. So I’ve had some meats even that I’m like, Oh man, this is unusually tough. Then I let it rest, and it relaxes and like Whoa, what happened to the tough meat. This is like butter, but it’s all about the fat. And that’s why if you’re gonna smoke, if anybody’s listening and you’re thinking about getting into smoking, it’s all about the fat. If you have a lean cut of meat, don’t try to smoke that all you’re gonna do. You’re gonna get smoky tough meat. You want something with fat so when you’re smoking, you’re doing it at low temperatures and people ruin things when they grill. You ever see somebody take a really nice yeah marbled piece of meat and it’s just beautiful with all that fat. They slap it on the grill, they turn it way up, they sear both sides and are like I like it rare. So there’s like a lot of fat on this. And they’re cutting the fat out. I’m like, Oh, what are you doing? Like, no, you gotta cook it low and slow, because at about 145 degrees or so and people argue on this but, but 145 degrees, that’s when the fat starts to render, it turns into a liquid, and it becomes one with the meat, it makes it juicy, like you said, super moist. Yeah. And then if you’re working with something like ribs, or anything on the bone, like if you’re doing a chuck roast, or a T bone steak, you have connective tissues, just like we and the connective tissue start to break down at about the same temperature but more accurately, at about 170 to 195 degrees, or 200 degrees. So that’s why brisket takes so long, because you have to get it not only up to 140. But once the hits 170 It can actually start down to break break down the connective tissue too.

Tom Kubiak
And you got to keep it there for a long time.

Ian Robertson
Long time because fat Yeah, and you got to do it. You have to time everything just right. And that’s the whole thing with ribs is it’s all about timing. If you get it up to temperature to get the connective tissue done, but you’ve had it on too long at 145. All you did was lose all your fat out of the meat, likely just so it’s all about timing. That’s why your five and a half hour method appeals to me, the less time yeah, have it on the smoker, but get the same temperature and effect, the better. So you don’t lose the fat.

Tom Kubiak
Yeah, yeah, it well, I, I think if you if you can do it on the on the pit barrel, I think that’d be great. You know, like I said, the challenge I had is just the getting the temperature to be consistent.

Ian Robertson
You know, I’ve seen people smoke some amazing stuff in file cabinets and old washing machines.

Tom Kubiak
I’ve seen some of those videos.

Ian Robertson
You know, and and they’re making like, it’s true high quality stuff is not about the equipment, it’s about. I mean, it is about the equipment, if you have better equipment, it makes it a lot better, like yours is extremely accurate. And I’m pretty sure I can make a better, you know, a better roast in a pit barrel than I can in an old washing machine. But at the same time you make do with what you have. And some of these guys are making way better stuff than I could ever make.

Tom Kubiak
Well the real professional. Yeah, the professional pitmasters they use, you know, offset smokers, which is wood, and you know, talk about they have to be able to manage their their fire and their smoke from that offset smoking box. And actually, when I was looking at smokers, I think we talked about this in the pit barrel review episode, I was thinking about getting one of those because that’s really the pinnacle of smoking, if you you know, you get one of these big huge things that looks like it’s a you know, like a 55 gallon drum turned on its side and it’s weighs 2000 pounds, and you tow it behind your car like that. That’s an awesome smoker. But the there’s no way to at least from my perspective, I am a novice, I couldn’t get that to be a consistent temperature. And that’s really what I wanted out of the smoker is to have the consistency. So for me that the pellet smoker does that.

Ian Robertson
Well, and you have to you have to be willing to do a lot of volume. A lot of the times though, there’s a couple of smoke places out near me. And I watched these guys every weekend. You know, 12, 13 hour days. Yeah, just smoking chicken and meat and all sorts of things. And it is really good. Yeah. But it’s like they’re doing hundreds or more of these pieces of meat. It’s like that. That takes a lot of practice to get Yeah, they get good at it. So just go buy one and be like, Hey, let’s see what happens.

Tom Kubiak
No, I’m not ready for that. I’m very happy with what I have.

Ian Robertson
I like having a little bit more primal. Well, I like to have..

Tom Kubiak
You do Yeah, but you’re good at it too. So you know you. I think you are I think I mean from what I’ve seen the results you get is pretty good.

Ian Robertson
You’ve never tasted it. So..

Tom Kubiak
We gotta get together and do a taste off.

Ian Robertson
I do need to I do need to challenge you to do something else besides ribs and chicken though.

Tom Kubiak
I do want to try a brisket.

Ian Robertson
Okay, don’t go right to brisket. That’s a big deal.

Tom Kubiak
What would you suggest?

Ian Robertson
You have mastered the ribs. If you like pork, do a pork shoulder and then make pulled pork tacos with it.

Tom Kubiak
Oh, okay, that would be good.

Ian Robertson
So that’s what we did tonight. I’ll do some research on that. Yeah, just grab some grab a pork butt. Pull it apart after you have to let a pork butt sit, you know about 30 minutes. Yeah, it needs to sit okay to rest. But um try that try pork butt or try a chuck roast.

Tom Kubiak
Oh, okay. I’d love a chuck roast probably. Yeah.

Ian Robertson
Chuck roast ends up tasting like brisket to me if you do it right. Okay, it doesn’t it’s not as labor intensive. It does take five or six hours, but it’s, it’s really good. So maybe we’ll, try try something new and maybe we’ll do an episode on it.

Tom Kubiak
Okay, sounds good. Sounds good. I’m looking forward to it.

Ian Robertson
But thank you for that. Thank you for sharing your your your method here.

Tom Kubiak
Oh, no problem. Thanks. Thanks for for hanging out with me for a little while, Ian.

Ian Robertson
Yeah no,

Tom Kubiak
You got a, you got a bad joke for me tonight?

Ian Robertson
I don’t. Yeah. You know.

Tom Kubiak
I got one for you.

Ian Robertson
Okay, I want to hear it.

Tom Kubiak
Alright, what did the baby corn say to the mama corn?

Ian Robertson
I don’t know.

Tom Kubiak
Where’s my popcorn?

Ian Robertson
Oh. See..

Tom Kubiak
No, I didn’t. That’s pretty bad.

Ian Robertson
That’s pretty bad. Are you my popcorn? I was actually leading into a joke. I said, I don’t have a dad joke, because I’m too sad because you heard the Pillsbury Doughboy died, right? Yeah, yeast infection. It was really sad. There’s going to be a funeral at 3:10 for 20 minutes. He’s survived by his brother John Doe and his wife Jane Doe.

Tom Kubiak
Just going off the wall.

Ian Robertson
Well, on that note, everybody this has been Drinking With Tom, thank you for listening. We’ll see you next time.

Tom Kubiak
Have a great night, Ian.